If you want to see Australian Dairy Farmers board candidate John Versteden fire up, just ask about the future of the industry.
The shrinking milk pool, he says, is not the problem it's often said to be.
"It's not like we had 11 billion litres year after year," he said.
"We did not.
"We had 11 billion litres in an absolute cracker of a season before it stopped raining in northern Victoria and elsewhere. That's the fact.
"No one's had the guts to say it. It's about time we did and said, 'Well, that's just crap, call it for what it is.'
"I have the utmost respect and admiration for how northern Vic farmers have been able to adapt and evolve to their drastically changing circumstances."
Mr Versteden said that if the industry could maintain farmgate production of 9 billion litres, it would be "holding its own".
Dairy farmers, whether staying in or leaving the industry, were generally doing very well for themselves.
"Most of those people that are exiting the industry, they're actually exiting with a couple of million bucks in their back pocket," Mr Versteden said.
"I can't remember the last farmer I know that went broke. The reality of it is they're mostly multimillionaires.
"There was some data put out by the NAB a few years ago that dairy farmers, and this is a little bit old, but dairy farmers are in the top 20 per cent of the net wealthiest people in Australia. We never talk about that."
It showed there were plenty of opportunities for dairy farmers to prosper if they were guided in risk management to help them deal with challenges like climate, he said.
It was also essential to deal with what Mr Versteden called a lack of trust through the supply chain in the industry.
"Collectively, we can be very productive but as soon as we start pulling everything apart, everything disintegrates and I think everything you've seen in the media of late has been very negative," he said.
"And I think the people that are doing very well have been too, I'll use the word 'afraid', to stick their head above the parapet because there's someone that wants to knock it off all the time."
The tall poppy syndrome was preventing farmers from sharing valuable knowledge, Mr Versteden said.
"Research and development is important but it's not probably the vehicle that took the industry to a good place, it was more how farmers learn from farmers," he said.
An example of that learning took the form of discussion groups and focus farms.
Mr Versteden, who farms at Longwarry, Victoria, said dollar-a-litre milk was a good example of how the emotion invested in negativity towards industry issues could be harnessed for a more positive approach.
"You can tell whatever story you like about that, but the reality of it is, yes, milk was being sold for $1 a litre but the average price of the milk in supermarkets was $1.70," he said, "but we never talked about that."
"The dollar-a-litre milk nut did need to be cracked, and it has.
"There's probably still a little way to go but it's had a 20pc increase and yet we haven't actually trumpeted that from anywhere and we probably should have because that's a significant change in that space."
ADF could be more vocal, Mr Versteden said, about industry successes, such as sustainability and animal welfare.
And, as well as calling on governments to deal with industry issues like the use of the word "milk" on plant-based drinks, Mr Versteden said it was essential the industry aligned itself with market expectations.
It also needed to take a longer-term view than that outlined in the Australian Dairy Plan.
"We need to be able to take the industry to a place we think is right for it in 20 or 30 years' time and I don't know what that looks like at the moment because we haven't had that meaningful discussion as an industry," he said.
"Dairy Plan started to go there but unfortunately sort of got railroaded back to the short-term future again."
That was especially important for market-milk states like Queensland and New South Wales, Mr Versteden said.
"If you look at the declines that they've had over the last few years, 20 years' time looks a bit challenging," he said.
"What are the appropriate interventions to stop the inevitable happening?
"The challenges facing our domestic market producing states are significant and, unless we address the issue strategically, there won't be too many dairy farmers left in some areas by 2050 and all that milk will potentially come from the south."
Refocusing the industry relied on better communication with the grass roots but, Mr Versteden said, it was a challenge to reach the majority who were focussed on their businesses rather than wanting to engage with advocacy and policy.
The top concerns of grass roots dairy farmers right now, he said, were around people and training, and climate policy.
Aside from advocating for enhanced agricultural visas, the industry could learn from "good operators" who didn't face on-farm labour issues and invest in better training and people systems, he said.
Most farmers wanted to be able to contact a single organisation to help them solve such challenges, Mr Versteden said.
While it hadn't proven possible to bring ADF and DA together, he thought farmer bodies and the local arms of DA, like GippsDairy, could work more closely together.
The state-based federal structure of dairy advocacy meant that ADF wasn't as nimble as it needed to be, Mr Versteden said, but streamlining the processes wouldn't be easy.
Mr Versteden, who has previously served as an ADF director for three years but missed out on a seat last election, is among a field of six candidates competing for two business director roles at the November 25 election.
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